Curse

Maladjusted · Jun 13, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

As in:

Damage per second
Area of effect spells
Energy management
Defensive spells

I've made an elementalist and I didn't want to be the regular Pyromancer 90% of PvE mages seem to be. So I made a Geomancer (max Earth, 9 Water and 11 Energy). I like the fact I have some good defensive spells like Armor of Earth and Ward Against Melee but I'm wondering if the damage I'm doing is laughable compared to a fire mage.

Example attacks:

Hit group of enemies with Deep Freeze (about 50 damage each)
Hit same group with Churning Earth (hits for about 35 damage about 4-5 times)
Dragon Stomp (hits the area for between 50-80 usually)
Teinai's Crystals (run into a tight group of foes and hit them all for 106 guaranteed)
Occasionaly use Obsidian Flame for the guaranteed 116 damage on all foes

Energy is managed by Elemental Attunement.

So is it time to quit being a Geomancer? Maybe I can tweak the character to do better damage (like adding Aftershock)?
If being a Geomancer is a joke in PvE, then I'd rather look into being an Aeromancer. If this is the case, then is being an Aeromancer effective in PvE generally?

The Great Al · Jun 13, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

I've been playing the 2 elite missions lately, and I'm getting kind of tired being a pyro, but I'm pretty sure that it is the most effective build for those, and most of pve. there are so many cases that a well placed meteor shower and rodgorts invocation is extremely deadly and effective.

earlier in the game, however, don't go with fire. by the time you get off a meteor, meteor shower, or rodgorts invocation, the group is probably dead

LightningHell · Jun 13, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

In Prophecies, I prefer playing with Earth, since after Shiverpeaks, Fire damage is pitiful. Except in Southern Shiverpeaks.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 13, 2006, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Even if you are running fire; you should splash 15 11 11 just for armor of earth...its just that good.

Ele's don't really do damage in PvE; Necro>ranger>warrior/mesmer>ele>monk
So its more about damage negation, and spamming sub-class (*cough* heal party! *cough*) abilities that allows them to shine in PvE.

LightningHell · Jun 13, 2006, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Actually, I would say Warriors could do some damage, but...most PuG warriors have a IQ of sub-zero...

Lurid · Jun 13, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Actually, I would say Warriors could do some damage, but...most PuG warriors have a IQ of sub-zero...

Which is why the majority of the Warriors you see in PUGs are used as stance tanks

Munanko Roha · Jun 13, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

[QUOTE=Eaimirth Etaivella]
Ele's don't really do damage in PvE; Necro>ranger>warrior/mesmer>ele>monk
QUOTE]

Mmh I don't agree with this statement, an Air Ele (in Prophecies at least) was the most damaging class in a short span of time.

If you're looking at constant dps Necro, Mesmer and Warriors are superior by far.

LightningHell · Jun 13, 2006, 08:09 AM // 08:09

I think a Blood necromancer can do more damage in that short span of time. So can a Mesmer.

Wait, I should say a Mesmer DEFINITELY can outdamage an Air elementalist...even if she is playing as an Elementalist. -_-

ubermancer · Jun 13, 2006, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I think a Blood necromancer can do more damage in that short span of time. So can a Mesmer.

Wait, I should say a Mesmer DEFINITELY can outdamage an Air elementalist...even if she is playing as an Elementalist. -_-

Yeah, I must agree.

But, some new factions combos allow for some SICK damage on an earth ele.

First off, earth ele's win the defensive competition, hands down. They are the hardiest casters short of i-monks.

They are of course best paired with other types of ele's, and I just took a critical analytic look at Elementalists in Urgoz's Warren [Im a geek and an insomniac, these sorts of activities sound like good ideas to me at times] and have decided that a 2 fire 1 earth 1 water split is the best way to go for the team's eles, for the classic 3-4 ele 3-4 trappers 1-2 necros 3 monks 1 spirit spammer build for Urgoz.

But, even insomniacs must sleep. Gnight GWG.

Luciora · Jun 13, 2006, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Well I am sitting in much the same boat. My Fire ele does plenty damage in a good group. Remember that an Ele is NOT an outright attack class. Much like many others, Ele is there for support. How you provide it is the real question.

Fire ele - MS/RI/Fireball, the list goes on. Any and all of these make for good use when a warrior is busy attacking a group of 4 or more. You can really do a lot of damage. For those arguing that fire does not do enough, get a ranger to run that Spirit of Winter (or whatever it was called).

Geo ele - Earthquake, sliver armour, here are plenty as well. Just find the right spells that will allow you to be useful in a group.

It seems a lot of people think that the Ele can be used to run in and clear a room. Those days are long gone. You need to think a little and then find a slot for your ele in the group. Ele is much like a Curses Necro or even a Mesmer. You have to strategise your attack, not just dash in and start casting hoping that you can kill something quick.

Everyone who has spent time in Cantha will know that a single person cannot overwhelm the lvl 20 - 28 enemies. Just use this and adapt to a group environment. Don't limit yourself as an Ele to think that Fire is the only way to go.

Fire - Area of Effect. If your warriors do their job well, you will have plenty of opportunities to drop your nukes and thus take out a lot of enemies.

Air/water - single targets. This will be used more to focus on a single enemy and take it out as quickly as possible. Annoying mesmers come to mind.

Geo - Area of Effect to some degree. Here you will be focussing more on dropping wards and quakes etc. to assist with damage dealing or preventing. Sliver armour will hurt an enemy attacking you. You have knockdown skills etc. Again, find out from the group what will be best and how you can provide support for them.

Personally I don't use my Ele to have lots of energy and then run the 2nd prof skills instead. I enjoy being an Ele. You will just have to realise that you are not a one man show.

--- PS This is all based on PvE and does not take PvP into consideration. Although much of what I said is applied there as well.

Lalita · Jun 13, 2006, 12:22 PM // 12:22

For solo farming with my El I've found the following Earth build to work rather well. I use this in Valley farming where there are no knockdowns, if I'm facing knockdown/degen mobs I vary it a bit to include ward of stability for no knockdowns and a healing for anti-degen. As with most caster builds this one is vounerable to enchant strippers.This build requires you to get up close and personal with the group as ideally you want them clustered around you to get the full effect. I could go on for days with the endless variations of this build for different mobs, so for times sake I'll just stick to my Vally farming build.
--going to put down the wiki deffinitions for each skill so those that are unfamiliar with it will understand----

E/x
Earth- 16(1+3)
Eng Storage- 13(12+1)
(for builds including healing or whatever drop down your eng storage and use as you see fit)

Earth AttunmentCore 10 2 60
For 36...55 seconds, you are attuned to Earth. You gain 30% of the Energy cost of the Spell each time you use Earth Magic. (at 16 you get 62 seconds)
Aura of RestorationCore 10 1/4 5
For 60 seconds, you are healed for 152...350% of the Energy cost each time you cast a spell.
Armor of EarthCore 10 3/4 15
For 30 seconds, you gain 24...53 armor, but move 50...21% slower. (at 16 you get 62 armor)
Shockwave{E}Factions 10 3/4 20
Adjacent foes take 5...41 earth damage, nearby foes take 5...41 earth damage, and foes in the area take 5...41 earth damage. (at 16 you get 53 dmg)
Crystal WaveProphecies 15 3/4 20
(can be switched out if you don't want enemy cured of all negative conditions)
Foes near you are struck for 10...82 damage, but are cured of any negative Conditions. This Spell ignores armor and magic resistance. (at 16 you get 106 dmg)
Dragon Stomp Factions 25 3 15
(can be switched with meteor shower for the knockdown effect)
You invoke a Dragon's Stomp at target foe's location. All foes near this location are knocked down and are struck for 26..85 earth damage. This Spell causes Exhaustion. (at 16 you get 105 dmg)
Aftershock Core 10 3/4 10
Nearby foes are struck for 26...85 damage. Knocked down foes are struck for 10...56 additional damage. (at 16 you get 105+72)
Stone DaggersCore 5 1
Send out two Stone Daggers. Each Stone Dagger strikes target foe for 8...24 earth damage if it hits. (at 16 you get 29 dmg)

Very easy build to use, set up 1,2,3 and keep them up. Then agro the mobs till they cluster around you and do 4,5,6,7. After the aftershock they will run away, wait till they come back and cluster again and hit them with either shockwave, crystal wave, or aftershock. That will finish them off. Or you can hit one with some stone daggers while your skills reset. If all is timed right you get around 550 damage for all enemies around you from first skill set use. That seems like a pretty good balance against any fire skill combo, esp when you are doing that damage to all surrounding enemies at once.

As long as you keep up your enchants you'll be fine, a earth staff/wand and offhand are perfered for eng and quick skill resets.I also use Tempest armor for the +armor while enchanted as I'm always enchanted while fighting. With 60 base+62 from armor of earth+10 from tempest this gives me 132 armor.

I usually only use the Dragon Stomp/Aftershock combo once as it causes exhaustion, better to use the other dmg spells after the initial combo set than keep burrying yourself in exhaustion.

As always I'm sure there are better ways and combos to do this, but it works for me.

Zui · Jun 13, 2006, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maladjusted

Occasionaly use Obsidian Flame for the guaranteed 116 damage on all foes

Only one foe. It's sort of like Earth Magics version of Mind Burn, just not elite, armor ignoring, non-conditional, and no burning... and different costs... Damage is simmilar.

Moa Bird Cultist · Jun 15, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurid

Which is why the majority of the Warriors you see in PUGs are used as stance tanks

Which is why the majority of players get confused about the difference between a warrior and a tank

With the right set of skills, a geomancer can be a much more effective tank than a lot of warriors, leaving the warriors to do what they do best (hack any immediate threats to pieces

)

AaronSwitchblade · Jun 18, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

But, MBC, a warrior/ele would be an even more effective tank still.

ubermancer · Jun 18, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronSwitchblade

But, MBC, a warrior/ele would be an even more effective tank still.

A Warrior primary has alot to offer his allies that an Earth ele cant, but they are a clear second choice in my book. Warrior has Watch Yourself, Protector's Stance, Shields Up, higher innate armor, absorption, and a number of skills dedicated to speed control.

The Ele has things equivalent to this, of course... and never let it be said I dont enjoy watching a Sliver Armor ele tank a huge swarm of enemies.

Zephyr Jackson · Jun 18, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Earth has alot of armor ignoring spells, therefore you can do a large amt of dmg guarenteed....

O flame
Crystal Wave
Tenani's Crystals...

Cartoonhero · Jun 18, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

i used to farm with my geomancer, and its quite effective, as a fire ele would be dead before they could kill anything, being pretty much sol in the defence department. I always thought pyro was most effective in a group setting, and geo in a solo setting, always with that monk secondary to back up the party or for an emergency heal.

Shred Dread · Jun 19, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

In terms of damage per second, Pyromancers and Geomancers are about equal. Aeromancers beat all in this respect.

Now AoE is where the pyromancer really shines. There are some geomancer AoE skills that are good, but IMHO no one can pull off crowd control like a pyromancer. The pyromancer doesnt even have to make enemies run, necesarily. Meteor shower for example is one of the most kickass fire spells there are, causing knockdown and a load of dmg, and it doesnt even cause running. Personally, Rodgort's Invocation is my favorite fire spell.

Energy management is about equal between Pyromancers and Geomancers. They both have the attunement spells for their specific element, and all other energy management skills, such as Elemental Attunement, go under Energy Storage, which any kind of elementalist will use.

Just as fire is best for AoE and crowd control, Earth is the #1 choice for defense. Pyromancers really have no kind of defensive skills whatsoever, except for the inadequate Aura of Restoration (unless defensive skills from the 2nd prof are used). Geomancers, on the other hand, have Wards, and spells such as Armor of Earth and Obsidian Flesh.

So, in conclusion, Geomancers and Ptromancers are really equally good for PvE, especially since Factions has come, but they have different uses. Personally, I think that new players might want to make Geomancers just because there are already so many Pyromancers out there. Use Geomancers for more defensive PvE, pyromancers for offensive support and crowd control in PvE, and Aeromancers for spiking in PVP. I'm not even gonna get into Hydromancy now.

Llednar · Jun 19, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

I switch between Earth and Fire on a regular basis. In PvP I find Earth to be a far more logical choice than fire, mainly because KD+AS combos kick ass, and Wards can keep those damned warriors and sins off of you.

Fire is a great thing for alliance battles, Meteor Shower and Rogdorts can take out an NPC group pretty damn fast. Then again, Earth could be great in an alliance battle as well, you can easily hold up a shrine with wards.

I actually find the best fire build i've used was a Me/E (FC Nuker) when I used
Mark of Rogdort and spammed flare, for basically endless -7 degen.

Helena cursebreaker · Jun 20, 2006, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Even if you are running fire; you should splash 15 11 11 just for armor of earth...its just that good.

Ele's don't really do damage in PvE; Necro>ranger>warrior/mesmer>ele>monk
So its more about damage negation, and spamming sub-class (*cough* heal party! *cough*) abilities that allows them to shine in PvE.

ELES do the best damage in PVE